think tank forum

My opinion of the TSA has not changed much since it's creation. Or since before it's creation when 90% of their employees were ( and still are ) over glorified mall security with criminal records and a bad attitude.

http://www.music-piracy.com/?p=177 <-- You can read more about that here.

But today it was reported that the TSA is now doing random stop and searches on people traveling on the NYC Subway. They were spotted at Time Square station.

http://gothamist.com/2010/04/21/yes_the_tsa_i … ag_che.php

For the past four years or so it has been common practice for the NYPD to ignore peoples fourth amendment rights entirely and illegally search them at subway entrances. ( BTW you can refused to be searched and leave the station... but usually they will then harass you or arrest you again, illegally. )

Bad as that may be, now they are allowing a federal agency to deploy armed agents on the streets of NYC in full violation of states rights. ( The FBI has a special agreement with every state allowing them to operate within the state. All other agencies coordinate with state and local authorities ). Additionally, the TSA as an organization is just plain scary to me. They abuse people, hurt people, steal from people, and are not audited. There are no real checks and balances for them and they've proven themselves to be highly proficient at royally fucking up and just telling everyone to shut up it's for security. Security is of course something the TSA is incredibly bad at. And I am not just saying that. They truly are "incredibly" bad at it. Statistically a random group of drunk clowns should have achieved a lower risk for the average traveler than the TSA has.

Anyways, this strikes me as one of the worst bits of news in recent memory. With exception of course to Obama ordering the assassination of a US citizen, without a trial.

*sigh* three presidents now have failed utterly to grasp what this country is actually all about. it's pitiful.

tsa at a city's subway stations is fucked up. the boston police do searches at subway stops here every so often. it's the same deal: consent or leave. it's funny to me that they search people with bags and never search anyone without a bag. because dangerous things only fit in bags. it's pretty thinly veiled theater.

I haven't heard any horror stories about it though. which is actually probably worse because then unfortunately no one sees much reason to question it.

Be glad you have subways ...

yeah no, I'm an american. manifest destiny motherfucker.

DANIFEST MESTINY!

it blows my mind that Houston does not have a public transit system that includes subways.

maybe there is a good reason for it though.

Yeah, dig more than 3 feet and all you have is mud.

Also, what happens when you have a fuckin hurricane wreck everything? I would totally dig a monorail.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2 … nce/65390/

This is a great piece.

I'm totally choosing the pat down before going through one of those body scan things. I don't care if they touch my dick.

Way I see it, If I need to be subject to humiliation... so do they. Touch my penis monkey.

"Later, Schnei­er would carry two bottles labeled saline solution—24 ounces in total—through security. An officer asked him why he needed two bottles. “Two eyes,” he said. He was allowed to keep the bottles." (ref)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4GVWvT2Zs

Not even trying to defend themselves.

That made me want to vomit.

it would be cool to take a shitload of viagra before refusing the full-body scan

http://gizmodo.com/5690749/

http://blog.tsa.gov/2010/11/opting-out-of-adv … aging.html

There it is... the TSA is now committing a felony in every single state in the US.

http://files.neilgaiman.com/mirror/1011162117 … alvip.html

Penn vs TSA... worth a lol.

> There it is... the TSA is now committing a felony in every single state in the US.

not all airports have AIT. i don't think any in montana do.

http://www.pennandteller.com/03/coolstuff/pen … alvip.html

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news … id=7793386

yeah, that about sums it up.

haha, in the imaging scan they show in the middle of the news report (1:08), you can clearly see testicles and a penis

lol you said penis

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/11/18/anot … a-outrage/

I read a similar story, on an outward trip. Where the soldiers basically ignored the TSA official and just walked through. And the guy was freaking out but the entire company basically told em to fuck off.

Pilots get groped going to fly.

This I don't get.

It's not a security precaution. There's now way they can claim it is either, because the pilot is handed a gun when he gets on board and he straps it to himself.

So what the fuck are they looking for, if they know for a fact that the guy will have a loaded and ready weapon on board the plane?

And that right there is that.

They took his nail clippers, but I got to keep my Zippo?

I'm just saying ...

Things I've brought on my carry on (usually by mistake):

Knives, Hand Cuffs, Butane Torch, Butane Soldering Iron, Massively powerful transmitter.....

wtf...

actually... funny thing about the transmitter... the TSA can't stop me from bringing it on board legally.

thanks to the FAA, and some interesting regulation during the cold war. ham radio operators were considered a key component of civil defense, and got some special exceptions.

i left bzn for sea, and i carried the following notables:
* nail clippers
* small scissors with a sharp point
* a full bic lighter
* a full book of safety matches
* a huge bottle of contact solution, extra contacts, and eye drops (in excess of the 3-1-1 liquid limits)

i was pretty pleased

do you think you would get fined if you made loud sexually explicit comments while they are fondling your balls?

no

i'm pretty sure the aclu would cover any lawsuit

i wanted to do that, too. opt out, and when you see the officer that will grope you, say something like "you're cute" or "you have nice hands!" during the groping, make requests (e.g., "press harder"), say "that's hot," etc.

"ooo cold... cold hands omfug" would be a good one =P

but yeah... i dunno.

What amazes me is that obama is like "i support this". Fucking bizarre.

I read some rant on slate about how this is important to national security and it what I think this issue has going for it, is this...

Anyone who is for this, is an idiot. And they are basically outing themselves as retarded. So if you see someone come out in favor of it, they are basically saying "HEY LOOK AT MY I AM A TOTAL FUCKING FAILURE AS A HUMAN BEING!!!"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics … 22010.html

got my anti-tsa stickers today

http://www.aclum.org/tsa/

also opted out of the body scan this past sunday and got the pat-down

i've always wanted to do this

Shit like this is why I don't like leaving the house. People are fucking stupid.

phi_ wanna lose faith in humanity entirely?

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/201 … e_czar.php

There it is. Idiocracy is upon us.

oh my .... I am .... speechless ....

one of my least favorite things is misuse of the term czar. it gets used by everyone from insane tea partiers to people who want to legalize weed (ok, I've just heard it in a couple of documentaries about marijuana, but it was from someone describing US drug policy history and they made a big deal out of the word CZAR). and now apparently we're using it to describe chairmen of congressional committees?

> misuse of the term czar

czar -> tsar -> kaiser -> kaisar -> caesar, as used to describe someone who maintains some amount of unilateral control over something. how is this a misuse, historically or otherwise? seems pretty legit in general.

yeah I always wondered what the russian aristocracy had to do with anything.

In the context of the US government it means someone in a sub cabinet but pretty important role, or something like that.

i managed to pick a lane at seatac airport (SEA) that didn't have a backscatter machine! no pat down either! /o/

I'm hoping I'm as fortunate when i fly in a couple weeks

> http://www.aclum.org/tsa/

> also opted out of the body scan this past sunday and got the pat-down

Uh? You opted for the thing you got stickers to protest...?

Both options are shitty, but who seriously prefers to have someone grope his/her genitals over getting a freakin picture taken?

I'd rather let a stranger look at me naked than touch/grab my crotch.

BUT I think this is because I don't care about my photo potentially getting leaked everywhere. Is this why it bothers people? Or is it seriously just that they are that insecure about having a person, or a small handfull of people look at them sans clothing?

I just figure if the TSA guy has to touch my junk he's as humiliated as I am. And that's at least a modicum of justice.

haha those are my thoughts exactly

last time i flew i got the pat down, including inspection of my dread hat and hair... i thought it was a bit over the top but no one touched the gens.

gens?

Uh? You opted for the thing you got stickers to protest...?

I think the pat-down and the body scan are comparably invasive and ineffective and got the stickers because I oppose both. but I think the body scan is a lot "nicer" i.e. they see you basically naked without the concrete act of someone putting their hands all over you. I opted for the pat-down in the interest of keeping it real.

>gens?

genitals

http://cargocollective.com/4thamendment

les sigh, no one wanted to touch me this morning at the airport.

so no backsplatter and no touching?

nah. i even picked the only line with a backscatter. they were scanning every other person and i was unfortunate enough to be in place to get the old metal detector.

> so no backsplatter and no touching?

great wording

Fuck Newark

http://blogs.forbes.com/artcarden/2011/06/30/ … y-theater/

Forbes continues to point out the TSA is retarded. America continues to nod in agreement. Someone somewhere continues to fail to do their job.

I went through a TSA checkpoint for the first time in Seattle last weekend. They had the body scan machines going and people standing by for pattage-downage, but I just walked through the regular metal detector like usual...

Is it typical that they just opt to not make people submit to either one? I was under the impression that, if they were there, you were doing one.

The chick pushing my backpack into the machine did kinda glare at my waist and told me threateningly "You need to take that off unless you want to get patted down..." (referring to the slim fabric belt I was wearing that was part of my top). I was like uh, ok...and handed it to her...

usually they run them in tandem and depending what line you end up on you either get regular metal detector xor ( exclusive or ) the rapiscan machine. if you get the rapiscan machine you can't opt for the metal detector you can only opt for a groping.

At least that's their official policy.

I know in san jose they have like 4 rapiscan machines and 1 metal detector and i've only ever seen them use the metal detector. But that could be because the DA in san mateo said he had no problem filing criminal charges against TSA agents if someone filed a criminal complaint over the pat downs.

Weird.

the same thing happened to me, etrangere. i chose the far-right line, and it was the the one with the metal detector

I got kinda screwed last time I flew. Pittsburgh (i think it was Pittsburgh) has a metal detector and rape machine for each line (or one for every two, can't remember). What they do is every other person gets the metal detector, everyone else gets to have naked pictures taken. I sadly, didn't count correctly and the TSA now has a picture of my junk.

did they enjoy your weiner

I like to scream "Oh god it hurts" when they activate their little gizmos.

Also make fun of their ridiculous clothing.

You know, I am not an immodest person, but I cannot figure out why it's a big deal to so many people to go through these body scan machines.

Honestly, I have this sneaking suspicion it may often just be because people like to complain/commiserate.

Thoughts?

people value civil liberties

Well, the one complaint is the radiation exposure. The machines aren't actually all that safe as it turns out. The people most impacted by this are the poor TSA agents actually.

However for frequent flyers and airline crew it's actually a substantial increase in their radiation exposure due to the repeated exposure. And that is in addition to their already heavy exposure from the airline flights themselves.

The reality is pilots refused to use the machines most heavily because they know that their radiation exposure levels are actually pretty well studied and codified to prevent major incidences of cancer. By bringing these machines into play they were adding in another hefty yearly dose of radiation that had not been factored into their yearly predicted exposure. In short, it posed and still does pose a real health risk for them.

That being said, I don't fly as often as I used to. So I can hardly claim this is a concern for myself, or for many other people. However by simple numbers the reality is that there will be a few more people a year getting cancer as a result of those systems being deployed the way they are.

Now ignore the health risks, I don't trust TSA agents. No one wants to become a TSA agent. It's not a job one seeks out on their own volition. Not unless they've exhausted their options in a large array of far more prestigious fields... such as custodial engineering or the culinary arts of fast food franchises. TSA agents are generally of a very low calibre of person. And while I'd love to say I give everyone an equal chance and don't pre-judge people... the reality is I do prejudge people. I've seen the TSA rob people. I've seen them go out of their way to bully people. I've seen them do a world of horrible things for no real reason at all other then.. they were simply bad people. And while those are the minority of TSA agents I've seen enough of them to know they do exist and they are unscrupulous. If someone is willing to steal an ipod from luggage they are checking for "bombs" and "drugs". Then odds are they'd have no qualms grabbing a few nude pictures from their scanners and bringing them home. And as far as anyone is aware... there is nothing preventing them from doing exactly that.

So there's another risk. Personally I don't give a damn if someone wants a picture of me in a scanner. Whatever tickles your pickle.

But, there's one thing I do care about. And that is that the TSA is willfully violating the 4th amendment. What's worse is they are threatening people with what amounts to sexual battery if you don't let them. And that... IS ILLEGAL. 100% NO DOUBT ILLEGAL. Not just illegal, downright treasonous. The TSA was mandated with protecting the safety of travellers. They aren't doing that. They are in fact attacking people by the letter of the law. And that is not only insane. It is a threat to our entire country's way of life. So personally, I am of the opinion that John Pistole and Janet Napolitano should be arrested and tried with treason as well as a number of other things. If being complete fuckwits was a crime I'm sure they'd already be in irons.

And as for my last link here... I don't even see what the hell the point of the TSA even is. If you crunch the numbers, they without any clear doubt whatsoever do way more harm than good. And their entire reason for being is to stop something that is so mind bogglingly rare that we literally shouldn't even be concerned about it as a priority.

So... I complain because I fucking hate the TSA. I hate everything they do. I hate what they stand for. And I honestly believe that they are antagonistic to travellers and represent a clear precedent of violating the constitutional rights of people. These guys actually showed up in NYC subways to stop and search peoples bags. That level of abject disregard for the constitution is dangerous. And the US government should not be devoting funds to these clowns while NASA has to take budget cuts. It's a crime against the American people for that to happen.

And finally... regarding the scanners. They don't fucking work. Checkpoints are easily bypassed. Fooling the scanners is relatively easy. People can bypass them by picking the line with the metal detector. People can usually get their hands on knives in restaurants inside the secure area of the airport. Do I need to go on? Or has my now rabid hatred of the TSA jaded all that I've typed? TL;DR?

fuck the TSA

stole my camping stove

i opted out of the body scan, and got the pat down, which was extremely detailed and kind of made me feel like I was being admitted to a prison or checked for a wire or something. I was shocked at how gropey and invasive the search was. The dude also picked through my hair multiple times. They treat everyone like a potential terrorist, and even made a flight late because they had to do some kind of detailed body search of some woman and her small baby.

and for good measure, they did one last ID check right as you board the plane

also, why can you take a cigarette lighter on board the plane on your person, but not a camping stove in your checked bag? (just the stove, no fuel whatsoever)

> I was shocked at how gropey and invasive the search was.

It surprised you despite all the uproar about it...?

Not going to lie I giggled a little about the hair part; you do have big hair now! Good for concealing things! :P

Technically you are not allowed to bring cig lighters on the plane, so if you saw someone with one they just got super lucky or something. That's nuts.

Sorry about your stove Ander :(

> Technically you are not allowed to bring cig lighters on the plane, so if you saw someone with one
> they just got super lucky or something. That's nuts.

The only time I've flown since being a kid (back in '07) they let me keep my lighter. No questions, just looked at it and handed it back.

i'm rather pleased i haven't had to take any flights through the US since these rules started getting bizarrely invasive

> Technically you are not allowed to bring cig lighters on the plane, so if you saw someone with one they just got super lucky or something. That's nuts.

I was that person! they told me to take it out of my checked bag and keep it in my pocket!

>It surprised you despite all the uproar about it...?

It made me realize just how intense it actually is, and I can see how some people could feel violated.

Yeah I just checked up on it, and apparently you are allowed one common lighter in your carry-on, provided it has no fuel in it.

Here is a good list of prohibited items in case any of you are interested! Pretty awesome reading, imo.

I especially like the part where you can carry on a 7" screwdriver. That seems like a bad idea...what the crap would anyone need a 7" screwdriver on a plane for!? I mean, other than to stab someone in the jugular a la Red Eye.

Silly

Basically the TSA can disallow anything even stuff on the allowed list if they feel like it.

With one known exception.

HAM Radio gear. God bless civil defense.

Somehow I got a lockpicking set checked in my bags, no probs!

I've brought my butane powered hand held soldering iron through checkpoints twice... once internationally. I've brought my leatherman in my carry-on through twice. And in Germany, they made me remove the battery from my ham radio before boarding the plane.

Which I thought was weird.

That makes slightly more sense than allowing 7" screwdrivers but not 4oz of liquid.

there's some misinformation in this thread

> not a camping stove in your checked bag? (just the stove, no fuel whatsoever)

wow, i thought that was ok. that sucks big

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110906/110 … rape.shtml

I wonder how many men scream rape and sob after their searches.

I would.

Oh? :O

Just to make a scene, really. It's not rape. (Well, in that one instance it really was--imo) But it's getting ridiculous. Maybe it will ease up, though. *shrug*

It is sexual battery. Technically.

Technically correct is the best kind of correct.

uh-oh!

There is no offence called "sexual battery", but the offence of sexual assault involves the non-consensual sexual touching of another.

- wikipedia.

http://www.music-piracy.com/?p=461

Sexual Battery is a charge in NYC btw.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2907.03 Apparently not just NYC. Want to correct the wikipedia?

http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/97/003/0095.htm Mississippi

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/243.4.html California

Oddly enough the wikipedia article you linked to ... lists sexual battery as an offense. down the page below that statement.

haha! I love this so much.