think tank forum

technology » Keyboarding: n-Key Rollover

dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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Keywords: Jamming, Ghosting, NKRO, NKR, n-Key Rollover, Rollover

Have you ever had the issue where you were pressing certain keys on your keyboard and your computer would beep at you? You probably retyped what you typed and didn't think about it right? I always wondered what the hell the problem was. I think this was overlooked, and continues to be by most users and keyboard manufacturers.
I just kind of realized I can't press too many keys on the keyboard simultaneously, especially if they are certain combinations. Instead of really understanding the limitations I've always just brushed it off, but it really pissed me off one time, and when I found out about n-Key Rollover I had to make this post.

I was looking over our thread best keyboard and saw this short back and forth:


lucas: from geekhack.com, i've learned that ps/2 is good because it can handle more simultaneous characters than usb. so use ps/2 if you can, but if you only have usb or you need to hot plug, then use a ps/2 to usb adapter.
asemi: is this ever realistically an issue? I've never even heard it before, which I think is telling.
lucas: i don't know.



I was on some forums the other day and I saw something about keyboard rollover. I looked for the term and eventually I found a wiki article and some other reading. I wanted to see this in action (check 0:40 for some fun) so I found the preceding link on youtube.

From now on, I'm pretty sure I don't want my keys to jam, we should be much past this phase in keyboard development. From a design standpoint, I think my thinkpad laptop keyboard is pretty great. It's very comfortable to use and I enjoy typing on it. I just can't stand holding two keys and pressing another one while it decides to beep at me. This thing should accept raw input from my body. Whatever keys I press at what time. I clock a good percent of my day on the computer using mostly the keyboard for input. If I'm more efficient than my tool at communicating a command set, something has to change.

Here's how you can test NKR, most keyboards will fail at various combinations above 2-key rollover. Many keyboards are ok with watching the home row pressed at once so you should be able to hit asdfjkl; in one press without issue. The minimum point where your keys lock is the key limitation of your keyboard. You can read all about it in the following links under Geekhack Threads, or you can jump to the tools.

Geekhack Threads:
Overview, Testing Methodology, and Results:
http://bit.ly/iioBcJ
This thread lists many NKR tested keyboards and their tested rollover status, according to the methodology given!

Do I need it?
http://bit.ly/gaFlwV

Nopoo Choco Mini:
http://bit.ly/faTBeT

The cool part of the Nopoo Choco Mini is that it's a usb keyboard that has a controller onboard that defeats the 6+4-USB problem that's common. Meaning that on nearly all other USB keyboards, jamming will occur and they cannot achieve n-Key Rollover. So it's the only NKR USB keyboard I've read about or seen, with one exception: Das 3. I've seen that there are some exceptions to the functionality to the Das in this video.

Tools:
Aqua Key Test (Korean):
http://www.otd.kr/bbs/board.php?bo_table=aiko … p;wr_id=50
Supposedly this is the best tool, you can select the monitor mode being from the OS level or the BIOS level reading the input from the keyboard. This tool displays the keys pressed visually.

Geekhack's simple web based tool:
http://rollover.geekhack.org/

Sargon of Geekhack's web based tool:
http://random.xem.us/rollover.html
This one is really quick to use and you can identify failures without much effort. It displays the characters pressed in text character format.

Microsoft Ghosting Demonstration:
http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/Keyb … gDemo.mspx
Another web based tool that visually shows the keys pressed.

References:
wikipedia rollover link
http://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/cont … ained.aspx
http://www.braille2000.com/brl2000/KeyboardReq.htm
Das Ultimate Model S
fssbzz NKRO video tests
Nopoo Choco Mini Geekhack Thread
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
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Oh I almost forgot the Mechanical Keyboard Guide from overclock.net by Manyak!
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
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actually looking at fancy keyboards again. i've done some homework and i think i want:

usb with NKRO
104 key
cherry mx blues

see ttf thread best keyboard

this pretty much narrows it down to some filco board. I want to spend less than $150.
nestor's avatar
9 years ago
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nestor
nestor
fancy keyboards rule. i love my topre realforce 103.
lucas's avatar
9 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
i've had filco blues, and i would like more resistance
nestor's avatar
9 years ago
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nestor
nestor
then you better stay away from topres.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/571852887 … 0471_o.png
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
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anyone want to go in on an order of custom caps? i'm not sure what i want yet, probably blanks.

wish i could try different switches on keyboards before buying to determine force. i would assume i don't want too much force for finger fatigue.

those buckling spring ones are ridiculous, it looks like the springs would warp after time from that weird bending they do.

can't find filco majestouch-2 usb with blues on amazon (or reputable dealers) right now :(
nestor's avatar
9 years ago
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nestor
nestor
someone on here has an ibm model m. buckling springs don't bend.

i would be in if i had a cherry board. i was thinking about a tenkeyless noppoo choc mini with browns, but my current computer setup wouldn't work with that.
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
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i was under the impression that they do

yea i like the noppoo too for a mini keyboard. i want a full keyboard though.

oh ya and i want blank caps. i'm so keyboardbonering right now that i might get a leopold tenkeyless too :x http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=le … fc200rtabn
Carpetsmoker's avatar
9 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
That post (the first one) was very informative. Thanks!
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
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glad you enjoyed it :3
nestor's avatar
9 years ago
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nestor
nestor
by bend i mean permanently bend - i realize they buckle :)
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
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oh, it just seems like it is more prone to wear than other switch types. it's just a guess though. they seem awesome for instantaneous audibilities/tactileabilities. might be pretty fun to mash on i would think :D
lucas's avatar
9 years ago
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lucas
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i'm trying to get a board with alps whites

i while ago, i visited elitekeyboards with the intention of purchasing a filco fukka (white alps), but they had just gone permanently out-of-stock :[
Carpetsmoker's avatar
9 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
So my thinkpad standalone keyboard has a 2-key rollover (just tested).

I use this at work, and it has never bother me.

At home, however, I got a fairly crappy Compaq rubber dome keyboard, I ran into the 2-key rollover on that keyboard a number of times while playing games.
I think I'm *long* overdue replacing it with a decent keyboard anyway.

I'm considering one of the EliteKeyboards (Realforce or Leopold) but I *really* enjoy my trackpoint!

This is my wet dream:
http://picasaweb.google.com/k.peter.mattsson/ … rackpoint#

The finishing sucks though and is not acceptable. There is no proper palm rest.
To be honest, I don't think I can make that better :(

Plus, it's also fairly costly since you need three keyboards.
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
nice hack :D
Carpetsmoker's avatar
9 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
Just ordered:

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=624 (Brown switches)
http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=634
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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Here's what I'm looking for:

http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=774
http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=611
http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=451
http://www.diatec.co.jp/en/det.php?prod_c=706

:D
Carpetsmoker's avatar
9 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
I care little about the keytops. I don't look at them so for all I care the home row spells "Fuck you asshole".

It took me a long time and lots of reviews/youtube vids to decide between blue and brown switches, I went for the browns because of the reduces noise and slightly lighter touch -- Useful for games (Not that I play very fast paces games, but still).

I also considered getting the key lifter tool, but then I looked at it more closely and realized it's just a bent paperclip stuck in plastic -- I guess it's useful it you're a professional keyboard cleaner or something, but not something I need for the yearly cleaning.
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
yea me either about the key puller, it's total overkill. i do want the blanks though :)
lucas's avatar
9 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
WHY IS MY KEYBOARD YELLING AT ME
lucas's avatar
9 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
maybe i should get a filco tenkeyless with (fake) white alps

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=853
Carpetsmoker's avatar
9 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
> WHY IS MY KEYBOARD YELLING AT ME

I once had a near-blind customer who put large stickers like this on her laptop ...
lucas's avatar
9 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo

Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:31:42 -0600
Subject: Filco Zero Tenkeyless on Amazon.com?
From: Lucas Reddinger <jlr@lucasreddinger.com>
To: bruce@keyboardco.com

Hi Bruce,

Do you have any plans to put some of your Filco Zero Tenkeyless USA
Keyboards on Amazon.com?

http://www.keyboardco.com/keyboard_details.asp?PRODUCT=853
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001MSQWHO/

I'd prefer to purchase through Amazon. However, if you aren't planning to
put any on Amazon, I'll buy one directly from your online store.

Thanks!

Lucas Reddinger
Bozeman, MT, USA

lucas's avatar
9 years ago
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lucas
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thekeyboardco sells the FKBN87ML/EB for £90.00 on their site with £14 shipping to the u.s. ($170)
thekeyboardco sells the FKBN87ML/EB for $139.00 on amazon.com with free shipping.

i don't understand why the latter is $30 less.

naturally, i want to buy from them through amazon!

then you better stay away from topres.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/571852887 … 0471_o.png



yes, except that most of the keys are 45g. 30 or 35g for the pinkies and 55g for the escape! :D

45g is fine, but yeah, i'd like to try a stiffer set of switches.
Carpetsmoker's avatar
9 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
fixed link: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/571852887 … 0471_o.png
lucas's avatar
9 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
i've narrowed my search for a retailer.

boom
dannyp's avatar
9 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
still looking for the right board for me
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
I think this one is going to be it. I'm going to be mashing F5 on Amazon on Wednesday June 1st.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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he's putting full-size blue filcos on amazon? did you talk to him?
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
No, I should though. I just noticed he sold the browns on Amazon and then I saw he'll have some blues in stock soon.

Besides that I'm still on the fence about which one (Das or Filco) to get. I want blanks pretty bad.
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
First message typed on my Filco :-)

I do miss the trackpoint ... Instinctively it was the first thing my index finger reached for ... :-/
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
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best get to hackin'!
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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> Besides that I'm still on the fence about which one (Das or Filco) to get. I want blanks pretty bad.

buy the filco. i already bought you blanks for it as a gift. :p
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
too awesome. i emailed thekeyboardco to see if they're selling it on Amazon, if not i'll be ordering from their site.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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i just bought the filco zero tenkeyless and a set of 104 cherry blanks from thekeyboardco.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
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If you guys want a Das, and you're a student you can email them a photo or scan of your student ID and they'll give you 20% off a new board or 15% off refurb.

No email back from thekeyboardco just yet. I'm mashing F5 to see if they are still in stock -- 7 left.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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why are you waiting until tomorrow?

also, don't feel pressured to buy a filco based on my gift. i'm sure i can return them. :) i'd imagine that 20% off a daskeyboard with free shipping is a better deal. to be honest, though, glossy sucks.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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well i forgot about doing a timezone conversion so it was already tomorrow, and the business day was out by the time i emailed him. i'll give it until morning and order mine :D

i'm glad i'm getting the filco really, it was just out of my price range to get one how i wanted it :( thanks lr.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
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and i missed your call just now, again, this time cuz my shit's silent at work. previously it was because i had stayed up all night and crashed in the morning.

p.s. i shredded your che(ck|que)
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
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Yes, we will be selling these on USA Amazon again very soon. I think there is a shipment on the way but I will need to check later today.

Best Regards

Bruce



I'm gonna wait for Amazon deliverabilities :)
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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cool. he told me that he's not stocking the filco zero with amazon, so i bought it directly from over the ocean along with the set of 104 blanks.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
are you gonna mash this page?
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
more like this page!
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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i was hesitant to mash an old product page, because they could potentially create a new product page.

but based on the reviews, the keyboard company used to sell on that product page, so they will likely use it again.

--

my order won't be here for another week or two, so you won't have your blanks for two weeks. i'd like to get them to you before you get your keyboard, so that you can make the swap before using the printed ones. that way, you could sell off the printed ones as "new."

--

also, have you thought of dyeing or painting the printed keys for a most custom alternate set? you could dip them, too!
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
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yeah i checked both. the other thing is that by the time i'm at work their work day is over. it's dependent on amazon if shipped already, so i'll be checking periodically -- at both links.

i have thought of painting the keys, kinda like i did with promo. i had pretty good success with that high gloss paint and the keys felt better than before.

:)
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
shit, i should start reading up:

so i can safely pull caps:
http://bit.ly/it9UVP
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
or this, i like macgyvering stuff:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18569-HOWT … ULLER-quot
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
That's not a real MacGyver. It lacks duct tape.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
amazon put up some of the other keyboards but not the blues yet!
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
we're almost there! the ninja is up!!! i'm looking here
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
this post has been archived.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
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http://amzgrabber.com/amz-stock-checker
ASIN#: B004VKYHP4

gonna still mash on the store though!
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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> cool. he told me that he's not stocking the filco zero with amazon, so i bought it directly from over the ocean along with the set of 104 blanks.

wow, £14.99 for shipping got me ups overnight delivery (ups express na1)!

dp, you should have your blanks by saturday. now you just need a keyboard for them. :p
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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yeah i'm a bit disappointed, i guess i'm not sure how "very soon" he meant. maybe he didn't really check on the right model.

fuck it i just ordered on tkc.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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it probably would have cost $159 on amazon with free shipping.

so £90 with £15 shipping isn't too much more ($180 total, so a $20 premium).
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
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wintellect is trying to convince me i should be having buyers remorse.
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
this post has been archived.
asemisldkfj's avatar
8 years ago
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asemisldkfj
the law is no protection
why?
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
cuz a keyboard shouldn't be so expensive :P
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
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nestor
nestor
if it makes you feel better, bluet and i own keyboards that cost more than yours.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
dick, lol i'm jp
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
they sent me cherry brown switches instead of white "alps" switches. :[
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
Oops
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
class
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
Nice pictures. Too bad I don't understand the text that goes with it ...
asemisldkfj's avatar
8 years ago
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asemisldkfj
the law is no protection
cool page.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
I got my keyboard it's amazing.

The blues tactile sensation is awesome. Yes it is loud. Sometimes I notice it and it sounds great. In the night I do notice and want it to be a little quieter -- no fuck that.

I was going to bring it to work but I'm in close proximity to about 7 people. I know it's going to distract someone. I think I'll just keep it at home for now.

Hey lr, where did you send the blanks? to my house or PO Box?
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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i haven't sent them yet. :[ i will tomorrow.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
carpetsmoker, check this out:

http://aries.armake.com/1229.html
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
Looks good, but the way the buttons are implemented seems awkward...
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
yea i think it's the kbc poker board layout:

http://i53.tinypic.com/v6uu6o.jpg
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
I meant the trackpoint buttons ... But yeah, the keyboard layout could be better too.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
oh ok
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
i got mine today. it is definitely loud.

maybe i'll take it to work, but i think someone might kill me.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
i got the blanks :) thanks lr! the beans smell good!

gonna install the keys when i get home!

wait which keyboard did you get now? a replacement?
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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yeah

i got a real filco zero tenkeyless

it has this weird metallic resonance after the keystrokes and especially if i brush my hand across the keys. it's extremely annoying. i love the clicks, but the resonance is awful. :[

C-
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
So what's the difference between a filco zero and majestictouch anyway? They look pretty much the same ...

I never noticed anything on my majestictouch anyway ... Did you get the ALPS switches or the Cherry MX switches? Maybe it's a "feature" of the ALPS switches?
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
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nestor
nestor
wow lr, heavy criticism - everything i've heard about filcos is positive. even more so than realforces.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
no i know what you're referring to lr. unfortunately my board does it too.

there is one way to get around it, and it is quite crazy. see this: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18886-Ring … thane-Foam

in other news i got my blanks installed as soon as i got home today :)

http://i.imgur.com/qtIuFh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rmDvBh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2Ir40h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PYVfrh.jpg

i have since gotten rid of the gh keys.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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whoa, thanks dp!

i'm thinking that maybe i could pull some rubber strings into the space between the plate and the pcb. i gotta open the board and investigate!
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
good luck, i hear you have to desolder the board to get to the internals :o
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
the ringing makes it virtually unusable. :[
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
So is it a feature or is there something wrong with the keyboard?
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
definitely not a feature.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
http://bit.ly/jwpAQZ
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
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nestor
nestor
those with ringing issues - would these help? http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=ac … d=sl120_cs
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
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nestor
nestor
i'm considering a filco board with cherry mx reds.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
i ❤ demo
> those with ringing issues - would these help?

a couple people in this thread think so, but many do not.
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
meh, that sucks :-(

BTW
Does anyone else notice that this "ripster" guy is omnipresent on the geekhack forums? I don't think I've seen a thread without multiple replies from ripster yet ...
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
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nestor
nestor
yeah, he's an addict.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
there has been way too much talk about that guy recently.

oh and as for the ringing sound. i can deal with it now, i just don't bottom out on the keys all hardcore. i know where the activation point is so i really don't need to smack the keys so hard. it's really nice typing this way now that i'm used to it :)

BUT SOMETIMES WHEN YOU TYPE EXTRA DELIBERATELY YOU CAN HEAR THE AFTERMATH OF THE PLATE MAKING NOISE AND IT'S STILL WORTH IT!

all in all my keyboard is awesome. some guys on gh are telling me that the blank caps are a novelty and it will tire soon. i think they're full of shit.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
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lucas
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> some guys on gh are telling me that the blank caps are a novelty and it will tire soon.

link?
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
it was on #geekhack irc
phi_'s avatar
8 years ago
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phi_
... and let the Earth be silent after ye.
They're lame.

pssst, larz, I've been using your HHK2 at work. Love it.
DaGr8Gatzby's avatar
8 years ago
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DaGr8Gatzby
Drunk by Myself
Shit I'm thinking about getting a Das now.
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
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Carpetsmoker
Martin
nah. Das is a flashy overpriced keyboard.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
not really, it's pretty reasonable for mechanical switches. If you want to go purely for the low price you could get an (arguably) ugly cherry board, or a cheap brand like siig with alps switches.

i'm sure you also saw that as a student you can get it 20% off with proof emailed to them.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
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dannyp
dʎuuɐp
it is flashy though, but if you compare it to it's competition you can't really say much. see: deck keyboards, razer, steelseries.
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
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nestor
nestor
i want a tenkeyless cherry red with a good virtual numpad. choc mini doesn't come in red :(
DaGr8Gatzby's avatar
8 years ago
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DaGr8Gatzby
Drunk by Myself
Fuck it. Getting a Das.
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8 years ago
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DaGr8Gatzby
Drunk by Myself
Damn you DP. Just ordered.
Étrangère's avatar
8 years ago
link
Étrangère
I am not a robot...
> In the night I do notice and want it to be a little quieter -- no fuck that.

hahaha

ok after reading this thread it makes sense why your voice was grinning all over the place when I kept saying "holy CRAP your typing is loud..." the other day
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
r1, link
nestor
nestor
i ordered a noppoo choc mini with cherry mx reds.

for the record, is has n-key rollover under usb (doesn't work under mac os and perhaps other os)
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
link
dannyp
dʎuuɐp
etrangere: yeah i do like to type on this keyboard. it's great!

nestor: the first post does mention that about the noppoo ;) but i hope you like the board. i thought it was the one i wanted in the early stages of my keyboard seeking :) but then i realized i didn't desire that keyboard layout very much.
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
link
nestor
nestor
i am considering using it for work but may end up using it on my home computer (currently a crappy logitech board)

i have some concerns about the layout. the most concerning is the lack of dedicated home and end keys. home and end are used quite often in spreadsheets. i will probably remap switch lock and pause keys to home and end.

i am hopeful that the virtual numpad will be somewhat useful.
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
link
dannyp
dʎuuɐp
with autohotkey?
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
link
nestor
nestor
that's what i was planning. i haven't done a lot of research on the matter.
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
link
nestor
nestor
it's here! lo and behold i *really* need a numpad for work. at the same time, i find the cherry reds way too loud for the work environment i'm in - if i had my own office it would be a different story.

i love the linear action though
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
r2, link
lucas
i ❤ demo
aren't cherry blacks the quiet linear alternative? you could hunt down one of those

if i could find that graph of resistance force again, i might decide to offer to buy your board.
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
link
nestor
nestor
i didn't think blacks were quieter, but i suppose if they have a lot of resistance it could be tougher to bottom out really hard (as i do) and make a lot of noise. topres are a bit muted when you bottom out (it's like typing on semi-hard clay...), which is really nice for the people i work with.

plus reviewers have mentioned that your fingers get tired on the cherry blacks.
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
link
nestor
nestor
lucas > looking for this?

http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/silencium/keyboard/index.html
nny's avatar
8 years ago
link
nny
M̮͈̣̙̰̝̃̿̎̍ͬa͉̭̥͓ț̘ͯ̈́t̬̻͖̰̞͎ͤ̇ ̈̚J̹͎̿̾ȏ̞̫͈y̭̺ͭc̦̹̟̦̭̫͊̿ͩeͥ̌̾̓ͨ
http://www.flickr.com/photos/openfly/5948018975/ That's all I have to say about n-Key rollover.
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
r1, link
lucas
i ❤ demo
nestor: you posted a weight vs. noise graph for keyboards by ripster, i think.

then you better stay away from topres.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/571852887 … 0471_o.png

dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
r1, link
dannyp
dʎuuɐp
nice nny, hahaha

lr: your image is broken
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
link
nestor
nestor
lucas: i was going to link it but as dp pointed out, it's broken. i forget where blacks rank vs reds on that matrix
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
link
lucas
i ❤ demo
yeah, i was hoping you might remember where you found it, so i could see if they have another working uri.
phi_'s avatar
8 years ago
link
phi_
... and let the Earth be silent after ye.
nny: haha!
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
link
nestor
nestor
here is the matrix: http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachment … 1309959583

note blue and black cherries are located at similar points on the sound axis.
Carpetsmoker's avatar
8 years ago
r1, link
Carpetsmoker
Martin
> note blue and black cherries are located at similar points on the sound axis.

Ehh, no, they're about as far apart as you can get (...?)

Maybe you mean black vs reds?
dannyp's avatar
8 years ago
link
dannyp
dʎuuɐp
or maybe brown and black?
nestor's avatar
8 years ago
link
nestor
nestor
sorry, meant black vs reds
lucas's avatar
8 years ago
link
lucas
i ❤ demo
ok, yeah, i side with this hypothesis of yours:

> i didn't think blacks were quieter, but i suppose if they have a lot of resistance it could be tougher to bottom out really hard (as i do) and make a lot of noise.

but yeah, it sounds like the topre is a good board. maybe i'll get a hhkbp.
asemisldkfj's avatar
2 months ago
link
asemisldkfj
the law is no protection
return to keyboarding

I got way into building keyboards over the past year or so. I haven't started taking apart switches and lubing them or building combo/frankenstein switches from different parts, but I have been thinking about designing a pcb or doing a fully through-hole / breadboard design for a fully custom keyboard setup.

I've been loving ortholinear layouts lately, and am near 100% efficiency even with vi/vim keyboard shortcuts on a 4x12 board. I want to try 5x12 (number row) next.

here are a few of my keyboard exploits, in chronological order:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ … u_frosted/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ … 328p_vusb/

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/ … ho_family/
lucas's avatar
2 months ago
link
lucas
i ❤ demo
oh man, these are great

i've replaced switches in my filco. it's so cool to be able to fix a keyboard that way

i dig the hobby. would be fun to get into